I have had rather stupid MSN discussion and I was wondering if even anyone in here would have had the answers I should have given my friend. I think the regret I hold in here is how I maybe could have had explained some parts a bit better, but he didn't seem to care anyways, deadset on all closed groups being evil.
So there was this dicussion about lolita and having rules in the fashion. How it is not the same thing than children bullying some others in schoolyard?
At first my friend posted me a picture of a character he called a lolita. As we both know I follow the fashion, I thought he meant it that way. Ok, the girl was a robot and I was rather lenient about her style, but her skirt was way too short and I called that out. Said that she can be cute and lolitainspired anyways. I actually thought she was cute. I think he was very hurt on behalf of that robotgirl, who was imaginery character. Of course I wouldn't say such thing unasked to a beginner lolita. Only real girl whose skirt lenght concerns me is myself. Apparently he thinks I would turn full on evil bitch on a poor beginner lolita.
I entered rather legendary shitstorm. His arguments:
1. Lolita means attractive young woman. That was way before Japanese "stole" the word. With wikipedia quote. So they cannot have monopoly over the word. Sure, I know that, but we should realise which way I think of word lolita, seeing how I have talked about the fashion for more than year. Decided I should read the Nakobov book when I just have time. For the needs of the dicussion I had to keep writing "lolita (the fashion)". Otherwise all my arguments would be even more in vain.
2. Why there needs to be rules in that fashion? It only makes people feel bad for being excluded from something very important and equals to bullying.
I will stay more for point 2.
I explained that there is nothing else in common between all lolitas than their clothes and there the silhouette means the most. There is no common lifestyle (some are lifestyler than others) or other common interests, music tastes or ideologies. So there is only clothes. That's why there are rules for clothes.
Clothing styles come and go, some weeaboos can't decide to exclude some people because of that. (Basically what he said, avoiding direct quote out of being polite. He did say weeaboo though.)
He said that the rules exclude people. Trying to be lolita should be enough. The way we demand things is like children in school demanding that someone is certain weight or wears certain (too expencive) shoes to be expected by their society. It's like poor children who cannot have friends because they have cheap or secondand or selfmade clothes. He compares lolitarules in to thatkind of hurtful situation. That is basically what grinds my gears so horribly much.
I said that clothing can be chosen, weight cannot, at least easily. Though the price is an issue in both examples. In lolita less so, I think.
Lolita can be much about expencive clothing, but it doesn't need to be expencive. You can get real brand second-hand, or Taobao and Bodyline for rather cheap prices. As places like Hot Topic are apparently rather overpriced, telling someone about other options could be seen as a good thing. (If they ask of course.)
I mentioned that normally it is easy enough to study the rules online and find out these facts. No one HAS TO be silly and buy Hot Topic.
He said that it is my point of view. I cannot know what kind of problems other people might have. He said it's same than people who claim weightloss is easy. He told me about a girl who would sometimes stop eating because she was so scared of her weight and bullies and said that me nitpicking about skirt lenght is same thing.
The ones who say so, do not know the things behind the higher weight. (Some people are sick or have medicines to make them gain weight. And even if not, it is not easy, even that possible in many cases.) For lolita he tried to bring up that not everyone can access the information so easily and not everyone can buy from Taobao or Bodyline. I mentioned that there are indie brands and normally there can be lolitas selling secondhand clothes even in same country. As I had said it's not easy to have expencive clothes or be thin, he said that I can't decide what is easy and what is not easy. I wonder a bit why is that. Of course I can't know everything, but I think there is somekind of general understanding about what is easier than something else. Of course these all things are just excuses by me to make it right that we bully people.
He mentioned that now that there are rules that lolitas who have been in fashion for a while regognize, there can be misuse of them. He actually called the group of lolies who know the rules "an evil group that decides if you are lolita or not". People could easily decide that someone doesn't do it right and laugh at them and exclude them just for personal dislike. I have seen my share of snark communities to see that when ever someone properly dressed is posted, people normally realise that it's just vendetta and say there is nothing wrong there. I think that even so-called itas get sympathies if they are just beginners. The problems only come if the person themselves have been somehow too idiotic. Which normally needs more than someone just beginning to like fashion and unfortunately visited Hot Topic.
Best part, Hitler card in to conversation: I said something like: "I wouldn't trust them with my picture, but it seems to work." This is me still being a bit of beginner, and I am worried about my coordinates and if they work, but maybe I would post in daily lolita sometimes.
His comeback: Same can be said about Hitler Jugend, wouldn't trust them with my life, but it seems to work.
After all, you cannot join that fun club either if there is something wrong with you...
So remember girls, someone who wears jeans and cute t-shirt might be a lolita. It's enough if she's trying and calls herself that.
I'm exhausted. I fear that if I look at my closet now, I will only feel rage. I'm almost put out of my lolies now. It's too annoying fashion to handle.